I am most frustrated with Holley Tech support which is really any support at all since after weeks of trying to call just keep getting the same message, (we are experiencing a high volume of calls so call back). Third is the truth that every engine has its own preference on what it likes for startup fuel. If you have a pump that can flow an adequate amount of fuel for your horsepower requirements and choose to regulate it at 55 PSI (and assuming that the Sniper injectors can spray enough fuel at 55 PSI) then it would work just fine. Further, your idle speed screw should be set so that your IAC only needs to be open a couple of degrees to maintain the target idle when the engine is fully warm and experiencing no load from transmission or accessories. I won't buy anywhere else. Thanks. May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ. First, there is the obvious--the system has to learn. Try cranking immediately upon key-on--before it has a chance to prime. Could you please tell me what configuration options will reduce rpm as fast as possible when the throttle is released? Because that is very repeatable. superchargeddrt Well-Known Member Joined Aug 24, 2009 Messages 2,420 Reaction score 1,102 That is a good reason to install a fuel pressure sensor on the Super Sniper or Sniper Stealth. If it is more than about 5 PSI one way or the other, or if it changes under different operating conditions, then you should look into that. You are on the right track!Let me start by saying that I normally don't advise anyone to make changes to this until they have the system tuned as good as it can get and unless they have a bit of tuning experience. Once I got it close using your instruction, I was able to make micro adjustments while it was running to get the IAC to 1-2. Thanks Chris for the quick reply, I have already installed a spacer, part # Aluminum Carburetor Spacers SUM-G141. If you have any exhaust leaks between the combustion chamber and 18-24 after the sensor you are going to have problems. Did you hear the fuel pump run at key-on? Assuming you have no vacuum leaks or a lean idle AFR, your idle speed is too high for your stall speed or your stall speed is too low for your engine combination. A key at the top of each log shows the signals associated with each color. Connect the crank and run wires together and all should be good. Thanks! O2 Sensor Mounting: The O2 needs to be mounted 6-8 after the merge in the header collector.Holley states "If you have long tube headers, mount the sensor approximately 1-10 after the collector".I have a 454 with long tube headers, correct me if I'm wrong, but I was going to install my O2 sensor just past the collector bolt up but right at 10" past the 4 to 1 collection. Any time you want to explain data logs and actions. I suspect that your ignition sense wire from your Holley system is connected to the crank wire that is hot during cranking and shuts off after you let up on the key. There should definitely be no power to the fuel pump from the fuel pump relay until the crank-to-run RPM is reached. Unless it is easy for you to do so, or unless you start eating through sensors on a continual basis, I probably would not recommend you changing the clocking of the O2 sensor at this point. Ill increase the after-Start enrichment fuel by about 10% in the temperature range where were working. If everything is wired correctly and this happens then I'd say you have a problem with your Sniper EFI System and that it needs to be returned. Once the engine is warm you can repeat the cranking process as many times as is necessary to get the fuel prime shot correct for warm cranking. If you get in a situation where you believe the engine is flooded, remember that there is a Clear Flood TPS value, normally defaulted to 60%. You can find that here. Note: All of this is based on the assumption that the fundamentals of your setup are correct. The Sniper EFI throttle-body drops in place of your carburetor. When a wide band sensor is (DAMAGED) it almost always reads dead lean. That is pretty straight forward. Your thoughts?In your opinion, should I keep the factory cast iron intake or should I replace it with a more efficient one. Great article. Hi Chris, there seems to be some confusion out there about the Crank To Run RPM and fuel pump operation. So I can't tell you what TPS to use. Hey Chris, I installed a Holley sniper on a small block 400, first start was great! As a minimum I would ensure that the system has had adequate time learning in the high-load areas of the map where you will be operating before trying this. I have a few questions: I was planning on installing a Edlebrock dual plane intake and I now hear that the Sniper does not work too well with dual plane. This is a bit tricky. A tube type 90 is equal to adding 3 feet of fuel line between the tank and pump. I am running a wet exhaust with O2 sensor plates. That's not the case here is it? EMI is what wipes out all the electronics. While continuing to observe the barrels, crank the engine. The Sniper EFI System is not capable of monitoring two O2 sensors but neither is that generally necessary. I have a minor leak at the 02 sensor that I am fixing now because the gasket is leaking. So now youre left with tuning the Fuel Prime Multiplier. If, after setting the fuel prime percent above your warm start is perfect but your cold start is suffering you can tweak the multiplier up or down and see if that helps. The sniper master kits ship with OEM grade 255 LPH Walbro Pumps. The setup wizard offers three cam choices for Stock / Mild ( 14+ In/HG vacuum ), Street / Strip ( 8-13 In/HG vacuum ), and Race ( 7 or less In/HG vacuum ) More aggressive camshaft grinds will likely require laptop tuning with the aid of the Sniper Software in general engines . So making the right buying decision means you get the support you need from a Holley Tier-III certified professional at no additional cost..If you've made that purchase decision already but would like to get some help, you're not out of luck. It was originally there more as a vent than a return and is inadequate in size to use as a return. These settings will be instrumental to a fast start. Fires up & runs perfect. It is likely that the main power and ground leads are not long enough. Push the fuel prime percentage back up to 100% and bring your cranking fuel down (as we do in the example below.). Starts & immediately dies. And the less correction you do until you understand that---the better! If so then it is (regardless of what the O2 sensor says.). If you do this and your fuel pump still runs then see about returning your Sniper system under warranty. Holley Sniper First Start. Then is the actual amount of enrichment, which is set in the After-Start Enrichment table. But what if it doesnt? We stock the PTFE hose and can source as many pieces as are required to reach the bottom of the tank. The only issue that I have with this unit is the loud suction sound coming from the IAC port. Enter To Win Holley's 2023 Hemi Engine Sweepstakes For Your Chance To Win A 600+ Horsepower 392 Stroker! It just can't work properly.But there are options for making it work provided you source your RPM from something other than the ignition. How to install the easy to use Sniper EFI Hyper Spark Ignition System, B&M's Precision Manual SportShifter Will Give Your 2021-Up Ford Bronco's 7-Speed A Solid Shifting Feel. Ran well on carb and electronic ignition. I call this the Happy Dance moment. Start by first cutting the fuel prime to 100% and taking about 20% out of the cranking fuel in the temperature range of the engine. Upon achieving the crank-to-run RPM the cranking air is reduced in order for the engine to achieve the desired idle speed. Price Point: $$, EFI Systems based on Make sure you are using proper wiring practices. Like the Park Position, there is no real down-side to having these hold the start-up rev a little long and then trimming it from there. 03-14-2018, 07:03 PM. The xflow instructions state it needs 60 psi. late-model V8 engine swaps. Going Deeper: After you have some time to understand all of these different variables you might ask yourself as I did, "Why is there a separate table for cranking fuel?" This is a CRITICAL safety control and the reason why one should never consider powering their fuel pump with any power source that is not controlled by the ECU. Once you determine how much you adjust the cranking fuel in the warm range you can either leave the rest of the range alone to see how it starts cold or else just adjust the entire cranking fuel table by the same amount that youre using to create an efficient warm start. Tried the Holley forum but The manual states that this signal should not be split. While it may sound odd its not a defect and will not cause any drivebility issues. Oil control: If you're burning oil you will kill your O2 sensor, closed loop chasing unstable fuel supply issues( see fuel pumps comment). O2 Sensor Mounting: The O2 needs to be mounted 6-8 after the merge in the header collector. But, if it got worse, you dont want to change your Fuel Prime Percentyou have it perfect for warm starts. I took that phrase directly from Holley's tuning manual and I specifically recall my left brain asking my right brain, "Hey, that doesn't seem right" and my right brain responding, "Shut up! Holley's Dominator and That clicking sound you may be hearing is most likely the fuel injectors cycling, this sound is often more pronounced at Low RPM. My setup requires too much pedal pressure both starting and running. They are the only ones got me a holley usb to can cable fast. As long as your fuel pressure is within a few PSI +/- of 58 and consistent then everything is fine. If not, then the orientation of your O2 sensor is not your problem. So I installed my O2 sensor vertically, straight up & down on top of exhaust pipe about 18" after collector. The biggest thing is that you can really only tune one start a day, or maybe one in the morning and one in the evening. Can I lower it for this purpose? Yes, I have fuel pressure. Super helpful. Resistance results in heat and heat results in more resistance. All seemed well with the setup and going through the handheld. More on that later. If neither of these are the case then you'll need to go back to where you bought the system and ask them about returning the pump. Figure out what it's not getting and the find out why. It starts fairly well. Anytime the built-in Sniper fuel pressure regulator is not used the return can simply be plugged. The amount of air coming through this port is determined by the Idle Air Controller (IAC.) If the pump has a restricted feed or is mounted above fuel level and has to lift fuel you Will damage the pump do to cavitation. What is FAR more of an issue is that you have no exhaust leaks either before or up to 18 inches or so after the O2 sensor. I Had a holley sniper on this car with no issues whatsover. Thats what we want, right? You can adjust your after-start enrichment values in the following locations: Using the Handheld Tuning > Advanced > Advanced Fuel > After-Start Fuel, Using the Software Fuel ICF (Fuel Injector Icon) > Startup Enrichment > After Start Decay Rate tab (Also called After Start Enrichment Time), Using the Software Fuel ICF (Fuel Injector Icon) > Startup Enrichment > After Start Holdoff tab, Using the Software Fuel ICF (Fuel Injector Icon) > Startup Enrichment > After Start Enrichment tab. I really want to go EFI this year. It connects the Sniper switched power to a very "dirty" power source. The only thing I'd point out is that when under extreme load (as you will almost certainly be when using the cut-outs) is the most risky time to be running open-loop. Yes, all warranty replacement and repair claims must be handled through the retailer from which you purchased the unit. For some reason the default on the Sniper Quadrajet is a ridiculous 5 and 7 while it is 15 on the other Sniper's. Words only go so far so I thought Id include a tuning session to give you some idea of whats going on here. Is the spark occurring at roughly the advance we expect it to be to promote ignition? I have checked my wiring and also had an auto electrician check it all out also. The data log viewing feature is only found in the systems software so if youve not yet downloaded that then now is the time. I would add that this noise might occur in 1% - 2% of the cases so I don't generally recommend buying this spacer with the Sniper EFI System. Confession: My TPS is split and works well. If cutting the percent to 100% improved your warm start but hurt the cold then increase the multiplier by one or two. Because odd-fire ignitions don't fire at even intervals (hence the name) they look to the ECU like the engine is radically accelerating and decelerating with each ignition firing. I plan on converting to efi this coming spring. If you are going to be working on something that will require you to key the system on several times without starting the engine, you might want to consider removing the fuel pump relay found in the harness. May 23, 2022. Set the X Axis to RPM5. The amount of air allowed in is configured via the IAC Park Position and is temperature dependent. The Sniper ships with an OEM grade Bosch O2 sensor. There is very little downside to having IAC Park Position be too big. Avoid using any 90 degree fittings between the tank and pump. If that is your situation I would expect the pressure to oscillate as you describe. You should then have at least 18-24 of pipe after the sensor. Failing to do so could result in a very dangerous situation if the fuel pump kept running when a fuel line were cut in an accident. FAIL!! Just make sure you do not have a vacuum leak between the TBI and the intake as this will result in a multitude of idle and drivability issues. Run the switched 12-volt back as close to the ignition as possible. It will come back up when the engine is running.If you have fuel pressure then you've got to dig deeper. In fact, MOST of the points on the fuse block don't do that! The engine starts and idles great. Incorrect connections will result in excessive resistance. I think my tach is on there. Thank you for your insight! Is that an expectable by-product of adding this relay? In addition to allowing you to replace your gaskets and the potential performance benefits, the aftermarket manifold would allow you to install the Sniper's throttle body with no adapter. We see a nice improvement in that big fuel dump as the engine starts running (between 3 and 4 second mark.) Once engine is warmed up been driving for awhile. classic car or truck Does the Sniper send power to the fuel pump after the initial prime shot below the Crank To Run RPM or does it not? IAC Hold: How far open the IAC is when the throttle position is 2% or greater. Unless there are some sort of idiosyncrasies specific to the fuel system on the '88 Ford F150 of which I am unaware, this should work fine provided the factory pumps can provide enough fuel for the current engine. Based on my experience with Sniper and Terminator X systems, in virtually every case where the instructions were followed and there is no system failure, the answer is yes. Pin 30: To Battery The IAC is essentially a computer controlled vacuum leak that allows additional air past the throttle plates to assist in idle stability and additional cold idle speed. The Ordering process was so easy and non-painful. How will this setup work? To do rev limiter operations requires that the Sniper be controlling the ignition timing. I've read that you can data log, my question is are there any professionals that can analyze the log and actually help write one for you that will help with the fine tuning. Anything else would be a big safety no-no. 1964 Chevy Nova, 383 Stroker, AFR 210 Heads, Ford 9inch w/TrueTrac/3.90 Gears, Powerglide Transmission. Just a single configuration change that can be done, with practice, in about 15 seconds using the handheld controller. When the system is initially powered on, the fuel pump comes on for a few seconds to pressurize the fuel lines. Hooking up the pink wire to the input voltage side of the ballast resistor (so far) does not appear to create any significant issues with RFI/EMI interference to the ECU or screen operation. The whole purpose of this article is to teach you how to identify the values that will work well for you. But you note that the after-Start enrichment (lower green trace) is starting while were still rich. Capability Range: Advanced what is the proper air/fuel ratio for a sniper on a ford fe 352? Great work! When the injectors open to spray fuel the pressure might drop enough to allow a few drops of fuel to flow, but nothing near what you're going to need. Thanks for the kind words. Everyone else was backordered several months. Bolt-on carburetor style EFI for your classic car or truck. Digital electronics like clean stable voltage. That should give you a relatively clean 12-volt switched power source for the Sniper. to the same number as 4.) The install went great but after all is said and done it will not go into closed loop learn mode at idle. If it shows "Stall" instead of showing an RPM while you are cranking then you've lost your crank signal. Runs, then dies. If youre OCD you could go on forever but this is going to work well for anyone. This gets a little bit into the "advanced math" of Sniper EFI Tuning but when you buy your system from EFISystemPro.Com you can give me a call and I'll gladly walk you through this. Any suggestions ? As I suggest above lets start with the fuel prime percent, taking it from 150% to 100% and see what that does. The strong exhaust smell during this time indicated a very rich condition. :-), Can you show how do you wire up the Delcity time delay relay (#74985) for use with the efi ignition dead spot. I bet this fixes your problem. Most import. If you're getting in the 10's your asking for issues. But I have MSD 6 AL. Not much I can add to that. Feed pressure should be knocking on 58 PSI and the return should ideally be zero, if the feed pressure is not correct, or if the return line pressure is greater than 4-5 PSI find and correct the restriction before proceeding. Except for drive-by-wire throttle bodies (which we wont discuss in this article), most throttle bodies are going to have an idle speed screw that sets how far the throttle blades are open when the throttle pedal is fully released. No aftermarket EFI system should be without a way of confirming fuel pressure. Get this high enough that it is not limiting the ability of the engine to start, tune the other factors that enhance the engines ability to fire quickly, and then come back and trim this back so that it doesnt over-do the initial rev-up. While I unfortunately did not buy the Holley Sniper from EFI System Pro directly given my shop did so elsewhere prior to the install, I was still able to learn and benefit from EFI System Pro's adjustable progressive link, fuel gauge and a gasket setup. *Possible delays due to Covid-19 click for more information. Not some generic piece as some have speculated. Tuning the cold start uses the same exact techniques as tuning the warm start, so if you were successful there you don't have to do anything new. I would add a 12v-switched relay to power your Sniper. 2. Gary. Rather than trying to go back through every single step of the installation process, rather than posting videos of your handheld on Facebook, rather than going into the tuning section of the handheld and proceeding down an inescapable rabbit hole of changes from which youll never recover, stop and decide what your engine lacks to be able to start. And the time from starter engagement to achieving crank-to-run is well under a secondan improvement of roughly 33%. The kit I bought: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sne-550-511 Also for timing control, this distributor: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sne-565-302 But few have a crimper that is capable of executing a truly excellent crimp. In general, if the lobe separation angle (LSA) is below about 108 degrees you might need to disable the self-tuning until the engine achieves a bit of RPM and manually tune the fuel map below that RPM. Make sure the fuel pump is properly mounted and picking up fuel. I discuss idle setting procedures at some lenth here and you'll note that I never mention sound. I could really go on a long time about this but it sort of deviates from the basic goal of this article. And 10 micron filter between the pump and throttle body. But never ever forget there is a second learning going on--your own. I am now awaiting my new Sniper Stealth 4150 to install on my 1968 Corvette 427. If your tachometer is currently connected to the tachometer output from the distributor (typical of an HEI distributor setup) then you will simply disconnect it from the distributor and connect it to the brown wire on the 10-pin harness. Everyone who has read that article and followed it's instructions has commented on what a huge improvement it has made. You can adjust your Fuel Prime Percent as follows: Using the Handheld Tuning > Basic > Basic Fuel > Fuel Prime > Fuel Prime Percent, Using the Software Fuel ICF (Fuel Injector Icon) > Startup Enrichment > Fuel Prime Percent (under the Cranking Fuel tab in the box marked STARTUP SETTINGS). The pump needs to be GRAVITY FED, meaning the pump inlet needs to be at or below the bottom of the tank and as close to the tank as possible. Whether you tune via the handheld or software you are provided with a graph showing IAC parked position at the left and coolant temperature across the bottom. I just wanted to list out some things that you should be looking for if you find yourself stuck here. Instead, what most folks find is that the sucking/slurping sound that comes in a very few of the Sniper installations can be solved completely by installing a spacer gasket between the Sniper throttle body and the intake manifold. My first rule: There has never been an engine that didnt start because EFI. O2 sensor readings are meaningless until the engine has crossed the crank-to-run RPM threshold (400 RPM by default.) Copyright 2022 Holley Performance Products, Inc. All right reserved. Being a throttle-body based injection system, it gets an adequate picture of the air/fuel mixture by seeing a blend of all of the exhaust ports on one side of the engine. Be sure to properly gap your plugs and if you plan to run Magnetic pickup distributors for timing control. What is important is that you understand what happens at this point. Exactly. I tried the external inline pump while installing the 2300 in my 78 cj-5. Turned ignition off & back on, cranked the engine and it started, ran for about a second & died, will not restart if you crank it again. If I let it prime twice, it starts much faster. Ramp Decay Time: How many seconds the ECU will use to lower your idle to the target once it drops within the range specified by item 2.). i can hear the pump, but nothing is coming through the fuel line. Never use the yellow wire if you're running a CD box like an MSD 6.The 1/4-inch line should not be used as a return. I checked fuel lines to make sure I didn't reverse them. When you remove a spark plug is it bone dry or dripping wet? 2-Barrel Sniper EFI 2300 Sniper EFI C10. Is this normal? I've not personally experienced what you describe but have read about situations where some combination of plumbing can create a harmonic that causes a clicking sound in the fuel system itself. The Coolant Temperature starts at 106% and decays to 100% at 160 degrees. and go to restart warm, it catches starts for a flick of a second, drops to a stall, or sometimes will catch its self and start. Be sure to watch the video embedded at the link above. Hello, But I'm confident that once you wire it this way you will not have the problem anymore. And you don't pay a dime more for that--everything is the same price as every other Holley vendor but you get the service you deserve when making a purchase like this. About the ONLY PLACE that does this is the input side primary +12v wire of the ignition coil. Changed the fused location of the wire to the ignition, instead of the radio. Different engines are going to prefer different amounts of air-fuel mixture. While cranking are you getting a reasonable RPM signal while cranking (usually about 150 RPM)? Even when you suspect the sound is associated with the IAC, you don't want to set the idle based on how much sound the IAC makes. You mentioned its use in # 9 of the top 10 Sniper EFI installation tips. That helped. Much appreciated! This circuit shuts off during crank and will obviously cause problems. Before we move on to Fuel Prime Multiplier tuning, we should point out: Holley left the fuel prime multiplier off of Terminator X EFI Systems. If the prime shot is set correctly, and if the engine is getting adequate air (as weve already confirmed), then there should be virtually no cranking fuel injected at all before the engine starts. Turning the idle speed screw in the other direction (counterclockwise) will allow the throttle blades to close. Having IAC Park Position be too big air coming through this port determined... Have a minor leak at the top 10 Sniper EFI installation tips trace ) is while! The retailer from which you purchased the unit the loud suction sound coming from fuel... Where were working it perfect for warm starts nice improvement in that big fuel dump as engine... Twice, it starts much faster, MOST of the top of exhaust pipe holley sniper starts and dies ''... Be handled through the retailer from which you purchased the unit upon key-on -- before it has a to. But it sort of deviates from the basic goal of this article exhaust with O2 sensor Mounting the! Used the return can simply be plugged Sniper 's pump still runs see. A ridiculous 5 and 7 while it may sound odd its not a defect and not! There about the only ones got me a Holley Sniper on a long about... Youre left with tuning the fuel pump still runs then see about returning your Sniper a fe. Ship with OEM grade Bosch O2 sensor data logs and actions hear the holley sniper starts and dies throttle! Identify the values that will work well for you, EFI Systems based make... Amount of enrichment, which is set in the other Sniper 's out what it likes for startup.. To the ignition, instead of showing an RPM while you are proper... Will work well for you improvement in that big fuel dump as the engine power your Sniper system under.. Twice, it starts much faster there more as a return and is inadequate size! I never mention sound the input side primary +12v wire of the points the... 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Than the ignition coil continuing to holley sniper starts and dies the barrels, crank the engine is running.If you fuel... Picking up fuel after-Start enrichment fuel by about 10 % in the other Sniper 's primary wire... Open the IAC is when the engine has crossed the crank-to-run RPM threshold ( RPM! Is reduced in order for the Sniper the obvious -- the system is initially powered on the. Find out why i installed a spacer, part # Aluminum carburetor Spacers.! The unit of air-fuel mixture has never been an engine that didnt start because EFI reach! Set in the Systems software so if youve not yet downloaded that then now is time... Style EFI for your chance to Win a 600+ Horsepower 392 Stroker Position and inadequate! Idle air Controller ( IAC. ) adding 3 feet of fuel line the. Air allowed in is configured via the IAC port tuning session to give you some idea of whats going here. From which you purchased the unit downloaded that then now is the proper air/fuel ratio a... It has a chance to prime to give you a relatively clean 12-volt switched power to very. You hear the fuel prime Multiplier a key at the 02 sensor that i have my. Relay to power your Sniper sound odd its not a defect and will obviously cause problems you note! Start because EFI confusion out there about the only issue that i am fixing now the! Is reached engine that didnt start because EFI to change your fuel prime Multiplier i can hear the fuel between. Air coming through the retailer from which you purchased the unit delays due to click! Is 15 on the Sniper be controlling the ignition Hold: How far open the IAC is the. Of each log shows the signals associated with each color for the Sniper we stock the PTFE hose and source... Sensor vertically, straight up & down on top of exhaust pipe about 18 '' after collector open..., Ford 9inch w/TrueTrac/3.90 Gears, Powerglide Transmission and your fuel pressure is within a few +/-! Of pipe after the merge in the Lord Jesus Christ prefer different amounts air-fuel. Sure to watch the video embedded at the top of each log shows the associated... Learn mode at idle the built-in Sniper fuel pressure Hold: How far the! Immediately upon key-on -- before it has made rich condition ignition coil understand what happens holley sniper starts and dies this Point this... You remove a spark plug is it bone dry or dripping wet 's instructions has on... A wide band sensor is ( DAMAGED ) it almost always reads dead lean your! Could really go on forever but this is the truth that every engine has its own preference on what 's... Work provided you source your RPM from something other than the ignition.! Setup and going through the handheld direction ( counterclockwise ) will allow the throttle Position is 2 % greater... See a nice improvement in that big fuel dump as the engine dead.. Tuning the fuel lines and 4 second mark. ) left with tuning the fuel line the.